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Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
  #1  
Old 03-14-2013, 05:54 AM
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Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I just read the whole post on the other forum.. Anybody on here tried this?? Seemed kinda useless to me.. I asked my driller about this and he's totally against it... He's extremely smart and is a mechanical engineer... Also very good w physics... He just states that a simple cover surface change will affect motion more than any hole.. I'm by far not an expert and he argues every "new" thing I Wanna try lol


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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:16 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I saw it being tested and there was some merit to it. It will not be the solution for all bowlers on all conditions, but for those with less hand who move inside and can't carry corners, it is worth a try. People will argue about whether it works or why it works. Try it on an old ball and see if it works for you.

If you try it, report back! It is real easy to do. There is a YouTube video on how to do it. Use a symmetric for now, because the asymmetric use of the hole is still evolving.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:58 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

If you dont want to try it, don't.

There are some very smart people out there that came up with this, and thru CAD, has been proven. The Motion hole creates a wheel effect where P4 holes creates a looping effect.

You might just want to start drilling all your stuff over label and do all surface changes on all your stuff since weight holes have no bearing.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:09 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I have three JR bowlers using this drilling and they are scoring better than they ever have. Carry is interesting when matched to this layout, the corner pins fall from various points in the pocket that most people coourl not get with other layouts. If a late sharp break point with serious continuation is something that will help you give it a try (it works). This layout will go sideways on some conditions or for some bowlers and is not for everyone however your driller needs to open his mind. Change can be difficult for humans and the notion that your driller is totally agaist it is nothing more than a closed mind. Until he/she tries it under the correct circumstances and makes a judgement based on real results being "totaly against it" is meaningless.

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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:25 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by on1whl View Post
He just states that a simple cover surface change will affect motion more than any hole..

I'm not entirely sure about that statement.
http://www.brunsnick.com/bowling_ball_x_hole_video.html

This video may be a bit older but using the same ball and same surface it illustrates just how much difference weight hole positioning makes.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:25 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Also sarcastic big mouth pro shop owners.This fad will be gone within 4 years when they come up with another marketing scheme.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:32 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolerman View Post
Also sarcastic big mouth pro shop owners.This fad will be gone within 4 years when they come up with another marketing scheme.
Just like Dual Angle layouts and Gradient Holes? LOL

Why dont you post this on his forum if your so confident in your statement?
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:32 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I've personally done it and loved the different look i got, the carry was phenomanal

as far as the op's driller being a smart man, he might be but the very basis for mo's MOtion hole has been around for awhile, lots of people have taken balls with lower top and had to put a hole on the backside of the ball to bring back some top wieght, what mo and his crew have done is perfect it with both experience and physics along with cad simulations

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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:49 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Works great on Symmetrical core dominant equipment in my experience with it thus far. Definitely way more length, with a substantial change to the back end action.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:57 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I tried the motion hole this week. Surprisingly, I had a 16lb pearl that was 90x3.5x40 I just hated. That ball before could be described as late, soft or dead in the deck as I tried to adjust my throw to work the ball. So, drilled fingers deeper and went with a 1"x4" hole. Ball was alive in the deck I had some very weird strikes where the final pins to fall would be 6 8 or 9. I threw 256,210,221 before league with a ball I worked my butt off for 190's in the past. Am I going to go crazy doing this drilling no, am I please yes. I would drill another ball with this setup in 15lb in the future. I still need more than a 3 game honeymoon before offering this to other bowlers as an option. I would like to be able to say we do this drilling and ball does X make this change.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:52 PM
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I intend to try this on a Brunswick Massive Damage. Strong ball with the Activator Plus cover. I expect this will be a winner.

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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:07 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Any extra hole is meant to fine tune a ball reaction, not necessarily be the direct cause of ball reaction. Of course surface will always be the most important part in ball reaction, but if an xhole can get you from 4.5 degrees to 5 into the pocket, then that could mean the difference between wrap 10 and strike.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:21 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I saw a guy using an ebonite mission with that layout and that ball had crazy backend. It won't workforce all bowlers but his game was a lot like mine and it was giving him a lot more miss room plus he could play farther inside and not really have to alter his ball speed. The only issue that I saw with it after watching the video is that it can be a pain to lay out correctly but as with all layout systems it works when it's done right and the bowlers game matches the ball's layout.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:25 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

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Originally Posted by Cbastian0002 View Post
I saw a guy using an ebonite mission with that layout and that ball had crazy backend. It won't workforce all bowlers but his game was a lot like mine and it was giving him a lot more miss room plus he could play farther inside and not really have to alter his ball speed. The only issue that I saw with it after watching the video is that it can be a pain to lay out correctly but as with all layout systems it works when it's done right and the bowlers game matches the ball's layout.
How is it a pain to lay out correctly? Its butt easy. Have you laid one out yet?
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:19 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeNoRevs View Post
How is it a pain to lay out correctly? Its butt easy. Have you laid one out yet?
I not a driller but getting the placement of the hole right seems important and any mistake in the size or placement of the hole would in my opinion make the ball not react the way it should. I would probably be less intimidated by it if there were a PDF I could study since I would have to tell my driller exactly what to do or he won't try anything new for me.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:44 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I plan to try it. Just waiting to check a couple flare's to make sure the hole is in a safe area.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:53 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Dare I say, I did this 25 years ago? A bowler who purchased a ball (way back then) with this drill pattern asked me if I could do it again. My answer was no...until now

At this point in time, CAD results are inconsistent, probably will be forever. The reason, it is impossible to predict exactly where the flair rings are going to occur. So, just like 25 years ago, we purposely drill a ball to have fairly precise pin placements, have the bowler throw the ball and check for a flair safe area. Actually, that's why I stopped using this layout, we could not predict where the flair rings would be from core design to core design. Throw in newly developed oil patterns? Today, the cost of experimentation would have been very costly from an individual perspective.

Without doubt, someone is curious as to how/why the drill pattern was developed 25 years ago, maybe not. But here goes, while we all know weights do not matter, I think two specific weight attributes are applicable in ball motion, top weight and bottom weight. Top weight helps get the ball down the lane, bottom weights get the ball into somewhat of an earlier roll. I thought, what if we could do both?

We took a Hammer bowling ball, had it x-rayed from four locations. It was interesting to see the block "hovering" inside the ball. From the different angles, we could see the orientation of the block in relation to the cg. The experimentation process began.

We had four balls with various pin placements and starting top weights. Knowing the first bowler's pap, the ball was set up with the balance hole, he nicked the balance hole. The next ball had very low starting top weight, we drilled the ball and had him throw it. The ball had 2 1/2 bottom after drilling, the ball rolled early as predicted, but still hit??? Relunctantly, the bowler let us put the hole in the ball. We drilled the hole 1 1/8 x 3 deep. Amazing! Not only did the ball control the lane, it drove through the pocket differently than any ball we'd seen. THE FOURTH BALL MOTION!

That was then, this is now. It would and did take someone with the wherewithal of Mo to try something like this again. It works! There is a bonus side to it, if a ball has bottom weight in it today, we might get it to hit hard, just like a bowler wants.

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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:08 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Just drilled a DV8 Diva with the motion hole. Let me say, DAMN. This is my second diva and I was beyond pleased with the first. This drilling has taken the ball to a new level. It doesnt work for every one but for me it was unbelievable.

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:55 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I guess there IS more than 4 places to put a weight removal hole to alter dynamics. Gee, I wonder where i wrote that.

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:04 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

The idea is not new, all you are doing is creating top weight by removing the bottom weight. top weight sends the ball down further down the lane before the ball reacts. (we have all known this for yrs.) Thus allowing the stored energy to do it's thing down the lane farther/closer to the pins = better carry in most cases, as the energy is not totally expended due to an earlier reaction. Don't get me wrong Mo is a very smart man, but he is good at repackaging old ideas, theories and etc. in a "New Hip" way. For an example, the angle layouts, it's still the same thing and ball reactions as it has been done in pro shops for many yrs prior. It's nothing more than a different way of expressing/explaining the drilling. But now everyone thinks he has come up with a fantastic new way of drilling a ball

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:32 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by faballfan View Post
..... But now everyone thinks he has come up with a fantastic new way of drilling a ball
Well, not everyone. That being said what the Dual angle method did was create a system that made layouts more exact. Ever wonder why two balls that looked like they were laid out the same didn't quite perform as expected? Being 5 degrees off on both the Drill and Val angle could do it, mean the difference between kicking out the corner or not. While not perceptible to the eye when you quantify the measurements via the dual angle method there is a difference.
That is the way I see it anyway.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:40 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

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I guess there IS more than 4 places to put a weight removal hole to alter dynamics. Gee, I wonder where i wrote that.
No one said you could not drill holes in other locations. The purpose of Gradient holes were to change the dynamics of the ball for desired ball reaction while keeping the ball flare safe. If you drilled it anywhere else, you take the responsibility of undesired reaction.....
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:43 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by faballfan View Post
The idea is not new, all you are doing is creating top weight by removing the bottom weight. top weight sends the ball down further down the lane before the ball reacts. (we have all known this for yrs.) Thus allowing the stored energy to do it's thing down the lane farther/closer to the pins = better carry in most cases, as the energy is not totally expended due to an earlier reaction. Don't get me wrong Mo is a very smart man, but he is good at repackaging old ideas, theories and etc. in a "New Hip" way. For an example, the angle layouts, it's still the same thing and ball reactions as it has been done in pro shops for many yrs prior. It's nothing more than a different way of expressing/explaining the drilling. But now everyone thinks he has come up with a fantastic new way of drilling a ball
WTF LOL. It has nothing to do with top weight allowing it to travel down the lane. :rofl:

2nd, a ball cant store energy, its not a battery :rofl:

3rd, Can you show me who was or document trigonometry layouts on balls before Mo, I am interested in seeing this? I bet I know the answer to this.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:55 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

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Originally Posted by MeNoRevs View Post
No one said you could not drill holes in other locations. The purpose of Gradient holes were to change the dynamics of the ball for desired ball reaction while keeping the ball flare safe. If you drilled it anywhere else, you take the responsibility of undesired reaction.....
To add to that.

If one drills the balance hole out past the VAL, there is a risk of flaring over the hole. I suppose putting a piece of tape over the proposed spot and rolling the ball a few times would give an idea where the added flare might end up...

The gradient line does not require that holes only be placed in 4 positions. Those P1-P4 positions are along the gradient. We often use P 2 1/2 holes, for instance.

My peeve...when pro shops decide to drill fingers deep in order to enable certain balance hole positions, they often do not inform the customer that the deeper fingers voids their manufacturer's warranty if the thinner/weakened bridge down deep is deemed to have caused damage in the future. I do this all the time for myself, but I am aware I am taking that risk and trading it for a better ball reaction.


Anyway, this was off topic
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:34 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RevZiLLa View Post
To add to that.

If one drills the balance hole out past the VAL, there is a risk of flaring over the hole. I suppose putting a piece of tape over the proposed spot and rolling the ball a few times would give an idea where the added flare might end up...

The gradient line does not require that holes only be placed in 4 positions. Those P1-P4 positions are along the gradient. We often use P 2 1/2 holes, for instance.

My peeve...when pro shops decide to drill fingers deep in order to enable certain balance hole positions, they often do not inform the customer that the deeper fingers voids their manufacturer's warranty if the thinner/weakened bridge down deep is deemed to have caused damage in the future. I do this all the time for myself, but I am aware I am taking that risk and trading it for a better ball reaction.

Anyway, this was off topic
Not too far off the topic. I agree, I do not drill the fingers deeper to remove excess weights, the change in the core dynamics can be undesirable. Basically, if the ball is laid out properly, we should be able to solely utilize the balance hole to meet USBC weight distribution mandate.

For the most part, we can predict all aspects of the drill process. It comes with picking the right combination of pin placements and top weight in the initial ball selection. Sometimes, depending on the anticipated lane pattern, the fingers could deliberately be drilled deeper, not to be confused with "after the fact". Again, a weight hole would probably prove to be just as effective.

In terms of placing a hole on the bottom of the ball, the out of box specs could be even more critical. This is cause for concern, how many balls are manufactured to meet this specific criteria. Here lies reason for concern, I think there will be someone who will try to circumvent USBC by placing "illegal" gripping holes and or substances in the ball. This will be a concerted effort to create a situation where a weight hole on the bottom of the ball could be utilized. If this happens, we will certainly see the repercussions through tighter weight hole regulations.

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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:48 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

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Originally Posted by RevZiLLa View Post
To add to that.

If one drills the balance hole out past the VAL, there is a risk of flaring over the hole. I suppose putting a piece of tape over the proposed spot and rolling the ball a few times would give an idea where the added flare might end up...

The gradient line does not require that holes only be placed in 4 positions. Those P1-P4 positions are along the gradient. We often use P 2 1/2 holes, for instance.

My peeve...when pro shops decide to drill fingers deep in order to enable certain balance hole positions, they often do not inform the customer that the deeper fingers voids their manufacturer's warranty if the thinner/weakened bridge down deep is deemed to have caused damage in the future. I do this all the time for myself, but I am aware I am taking that risk and trading it for a better ball reaction.


Anyway, this was off topic
Interesting side note. I crossed with a gentleman Sunday that had a weight hole about 1.5 inches above his bridge, I assume to remove finger weight without drilling extra deep finger holes. I had never seen it before.

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:18 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

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Originally Posted by BrunsNick View Post
Any extra hole is meant to fine tune a ball reaction, not necessarily be the direct cause of ball reaction. Of course surface will always be the most important part in ball reaction, but if an xhole can get you from 4.5 degrees to 5 into the pocket, then that could mean the difference between wrap 10 and strike.
This sounds like the exact same statements I've made for years concerning static weight..!! How have you been Nick..?

As stated above, holes on the bottom of the ball have been around for years and nothing new, as evidenced with the GBS and tech data showing different mass properties of multiple hole placements around the ball. What you're doing with any hole placement is moving the heavy spot/mass/CG of the ball, about an axis in relation to your PAP. The angles of the heavy spot to your PAP and the value of that weight is what's important, not necessary the hole location.

As far as the video of the motion hole technique and/or hole placement, data shows that drilling the fingers to such a large depth doesn't show more benefit, if any at all, than standard depth holes. In saying such, smaller holes on the bottom of the ball will be easier to work with, while still giving you the performance adjustment necessary.

There are many different balls, drilling techniques, layouts and balance hole placements out there that will help you reach your scoring potential. It's best, imo, to find the ones that work for you and for the most part, stick with them.

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:14 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

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Originally Posted by MeNoRevs View Post
WTF LOL. It has nothing to do with top weight allowing it to travel down the lane. :rofl:

2nd, a ball cant store energy, its not a battery :rofl:

3rd, Can you show me who was or document trigonometry layouts on balls before Mo, I am interested in seeing this? I bet I know the answer to this.

#1 if you remove weight by drilling a hole from the bottom of the ball (bottom weight) then in relation, the top of the ball gets heavier (top weight) we all know that a ball with more bottom than top starts to roll earlier and a ball with more top than bottom goes down further before it rolls ..... DUH!

#2 if a ball uses it's energy (starts it's ball motion) too soon there is a problem of roll out (loss of usable energy applied by rotation of the ball ) delaying that will lessen the chance of roll out

#3 You have just proved my point! You are right, no one has documented trigonometry layout on a bowling ball before Mo did it. That in it self does proves that he is a very smart man but, it is not a new "way" to drill the ball, it is just a new way to express that drill. The same drillings was being drilled many yrs before the trigonometry layout. (repackaging old ideas and representing them as a whole new idea)

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Old 03-16-2013, 11:20 AM
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I am trying this this week with a Storm tropical breeze. I'm curious to how much it will change the reaction of the ball on the drier lanes I bowl on.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:25 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Personally I would love to try this on a ball just to see the difference in reaction from no hole to with hole. I have an Arson that just sits around that I could put this hole, I think. Of course getting my shop to put a hole there could prove difficult, hahaha.

I only have one question, why wouldn't the bowler just choose to pick and drill the correct ball and layout for the desired motion on any given pattern? It almost seems to me that this hole is there a save a ball that was once deemed useless or even possibly to try and sell more ball that this hole was designed around.....Yeti?
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:29 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by faballfan View Post
#1 if you remove weight by drilling a hole from the bottom of the ball (bottom weight) then in relation, the top of the ball gets heavier (top weight) we all know that a ball with more bottom than top starts to roll earlier and a ball with more top than bottom goes down further before it rolls ..... DUH!

#2 if a ball uses it's energy (starts it's ball motion) too soon there is a problem of roll out (loss of usable energy applied by rotation of the ball ) delaying that will lessen the chance of roll out

#3 You have just proved my point! You are right, no one has documented trigonometry layout on a bowling ball before Mo did it. That in it self does proves that he is a very smart man but, it is not a new "way" to drill the ball, it is just a new way to express that drill. The same drillings was being drilled many yrs before the trigonometry layout. (repackaging old ideas and representing them as a whole new idea)
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:31 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

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Originally Posted by smithnick0 View Post
I am trying this this week with a Storm tropical breeze. I'm curious to how much it will change the reaction of the ball on the drier lanes I bowl on.
This hole placement is intended to make the ball stronger, thus may not work well on drier lanes.

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:32 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drouills View Post
I only have one question, why wouldn't the bowler just choose to pick and drill the correct ball and layout for the desired motion on any given pattern? It almost seems to me that this hole is there a save a ball that was once deemed useless or even possibly to try and sell more ball that this hole was designed around.....Yeti?
+1

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:41 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Also this hole makes these balls a very bowler specific re-sale item. Not many people are going to want to buy a ball with this hole in it and take a chance on the ball flaring over the hole. Not very many are going to want to plug up a hole on the bottom of the ball.

This might be good for a bowler who has 1 or 2 balls and only wants to carry 1 or 2 balls total.

I see no use for this weight hole and will not be drilling it on any of my equipment. I would much rather pick a different ball for the desired ball reaction I want and choose the proper layout with traditional weight holes. I have a ball with this layout right now Modern Marvel with no hole and it's more of a benchmark ball. It's at times lazy through the pins. When I see this I will switch to a ball Marvel Pearl that has a bit more length and angular movement down lane. The Marvel pearl has a different layout.

For me I don't see the need in putting this hole in the Modern Marvel to enhance it's reaction. Maybe if I wanted to use the ball all 3 games of league if I was concerned with the ball reaction or didn't carry any other balls to switch to.

Last edited by Bowling 300 900; 03-16-2013 at 07:57 PM.

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
  #35  
Old 03-18-2013, 04:50 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

It isn't about a certain reaction. It is about a mechanical advantage at the pins created by increasing the gyroscopic inertia of the ball. As the ball flares coming from the hook phase to roll phase it transfers the almost 3oz of top weight into almost 3oz of side weight which ATTEMPTS to give the ball a fourth phase of motion wherein it is actually hooking in the roll phase.

This creates a dynamic amount of drive at the pins. Sometimes too much. You begin to see 4 pins, 9 pins, aand high flush 7 pins and your tendency to leave 10 pins is reduced considerably. This is because the ball deflects less off the headpin. (Remember, the ball hits the head pin first despite the fact it looks like it is hitting the 1 & 3 simultaneously)

I have tried this layout on 5 balls now and one for a customer. It isn't a cure all. It can play a tad over under on some conditions. Cover prep seems to be very, very important. Having some friction on the lanes and or having a lower vrit surface seems to help the ball from being too squirty.

For those that haven't tried it I suggest you do before you knock what it creates. The "wheel" effect is very true and evident on everything I have tried it onfrom an old Vendetta, 2 assymetrics, and a Disturbed. Best way I describe it is it seems like the ball is rolling downhill when it gets to the pins. Very little deflection.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:47 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by completebowler View Post
It isn't about a certain reaction. It is about a mechanical advantage at the pins created by increasing the gyroscopic inertia of the ball. As the ball flares coming from the hook phase to roll phase it transfers the almost 3oz of top weight into almost 3oz of side weight which ATTEMPTS to give the ball a fourth phase of motion wherein it is actually hooking in the roll phase.

This creates a dynamic amount of drive at the pins. Sometimes too much. You begin to see 4 pins, 9 pins, aand high flush 7 pins and your tendency to leave 10 pins is reduced considerably. This is because the ball deflects less off the headpin. (Remember, the ball hits the head pin first despite the fact it looks like it is hitting the 1 & 3 simultaneously)

I have tried this layout on 5 balls now and one for a customer. It isn't a cure all. It can play a tad over under on some conditions. Cover prep seems to be very, very important. Having some friction on the lanes and or having a lower vrit surface seems to help the ball from being too squirty.

For those that haven't tried it I suggest you do before you knock what it creates. The "wheel" effect is very true and evident on everything I have tried it onfrom an old Vendetta, 2 assymetrics, and a Disturbed. Best way I describe it is it seems like the ball is rolling downhill when it gets to the pins. Very little deflection.
+1 I put this layout on a ball for myself and WOW! I am very speed dominant and have trouble getting my equipment to turn the corner sometimes...this layout fixed that for me and worked well, even on the US Open pattern we bowled on recently. The ball turns and just keeps driving which is a much different reaction than I got out of anything else I own. Not saying drill every ball you have like this, but much like a Rico layout ball...it is a nice addition to the bag if you have room for it.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:12 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I tried this on the banger hole pounder pearl I had laying around ,and honestly it made quite a difference in reaction.. Before the ball at 4k+polish was over under for me and didnt get much use ... Well I got the hole put in 29/32 4"deep and it made the ball get down lane much easier and it always made the turn and just made the most beautiful noise hitting the pocket .... If I had drilled my lord field stuff to make use of the hole I'd have it in every one... I am actually going to try and go to the max size and see how much of a difference I get ... I would say old or new way of drilling it works.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:29 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Added the Motion hole to my Radical Time's Up Pearl and all I can say is WOW! I have a straight pin over ring drilling with the ball traveling way down the lane and then making a nice move to the pocket, but most of the time it would make the move to late and leave that dreaded corner pin. Adding the Motion Hole to this ball has made a tremendous reaction change. Still gets down the lane but the turn is sooner and the drive through the pins is unstoppable. This layout just blasts through the rack smashing the corners out. Unlike before, I can move deeper inside and the ball still drives through the pocket. Like it was mentioned before, this layout will not be for everyone and for just any ball, but with my style and with this ball it is crazy good. Would mind trying it out on my other balls too, Slant Solid, Slant Hybrid, Torrid, Torrid Elite. I will be doing this to the Slant Solid soon. Stay tuned!

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:49 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by completebowler View Post
It isn't about a certain reaction. It is about a mechanical advantage at the pins created by increasing the gyroscopic inertia of the ball. As the ball flares coming from the hook phase to roll phase it transfers the almost 3oz of top weight into almost 3oz of side weight which ATTEMPTS to give the ball a fourth phase of motion wherein it is actually hooking in the roll phase.

This creates a dynamic amount of drive at the pins. Sometimes too much. You begin to see 4 pins, 9 pins, aand high flush 7 pins and your tendency to leave 10 pins is reduced considerably. This is because the ball deflects less off the headpin. (Remember, the ball hits the head pin first despite the fact it looks like it is hitting the 1 & 3 simultaneously)

I have tried this layout on 5 balls now and one for a customer. It isn't a cure all. It can play a tad over under on some conditions. Cover prep seems to be very, very important. Having some friction on the lanes and or having a lower vrit surface seems to help the ball from being too squirty.

For those that haven't tried it I suggest you do before you knock what it creates. The "wheel" effect is very true and evident on everything I have tried it onfrom an old Vendetta, 2 assymetrics, and a Disturbed. Best way I describe it is it seems like the ball is rolling downhill when it gets to the pins. Very little deflection.
+1
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:19 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by completebowler View Post
It isn't about a certain reaction. It is about a mechanical advantage at the pins created by increasing the gyroscopic inertia of the ball. As the ball flares coming from the hook phase to roll phase it transfers the almost 3oz of top weight into almost 3oz of side weight which ATTEMPTS to give the ball a fourth phase of motion wherein it is actually hooking in the roll phase.
More gyroscopic inertia means it's harder for an object to change direction. Therefore, the statement saying the ball is hooking more due to having more gyroscopic inertia is incorrect. What I don't understand in the video that's out is why they're drilling the fingers deeper to 3 1/2", as well as stating to start with low top. This reduces top weight and/or gives you bottom weight and doesn't allow for higher top weight to be utilized in it being transferred to side weight.

My recommendation is to not drill the fingers deeper to start with and use a smaller hole on the bottom to begin with. I would drill the fingers deeper only if necessary to fine tune and/or get the ball rolling sooner to smooth out the over/under. That being said, drill the hole bigger on the bottom to get more reaction and drill the fingers deeper to get less and/or a smoother reaction.

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
  #41  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:52 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Buzzsaw View Post
More gyroscopic inertia means it's harder for an object to change direction. Therefore, the statement saying the ball is hooking more due to having more gyroscopic inertia is incorrect. What I don't understand in the video that's out is why they're drilling the fingers deeper to 3 1/2", as well as stating to start with low top. This reduces top weight and/or gives you bottom weight and doesn't allow for higher top weight to be utilized in it being transferred to side weight.

My recommendation is to not drill the fingers deeper to start with and use a smaller hole on the bottom to begin with. I would drill the fingers deeper only if necessary to fine tune and/or get the ball rolling sooner to smooth out the over/under. That being said, drill the hole bigger on the bottom to get more reaction and drill the fingers deeper to get less and/or a smoother reaction.
I agree

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:41 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

just had jet burner drilled went to state tourny this weekend used ball 80% of 9 games shot 1903 ball goes long makes turn and is controllable love it

Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:42 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Didn't Bill Tucker out of Sunnybrook Lanes in Sterling Hts brag about the "Wheel Drill Layout" back in the 80's?
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:09 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Ok figure i would try it!
I have a brand new venom toxin. So i did in 4 steps.
Drilled regular layout pin up over ring finger.
Then bowled saw back reaction was turning a littleearlier then i wanted therefore have to put up sooner.

Drilled first hole 10inches around with the first bit, was hitting like an egg, 3 balls, 8pin 8pin 9pin lol i was like heck with this.
Drilled hole bigger, a little better but wasnt seeing the reaction iwanted,

Then drilled fingers deeper.
Now I have a long look on ball that I wasnt getting with previous drilling, It hits hard, hell Last night shot 704 in league with it all 3 games. Been awhile since i could use one ball for 3 games. The deeper the shot got, the more the ball shined with this drilling.

I obviously run a proshop and dont recommend everyone trying this on a new ball. But if you are looking for something to go a little longer and come back hard, you could definately go this route. But you really have to make sure your guy knows what he is doing. I am like half an inch from flare on my hole.
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
  #45  
Old 03-19-2013, 12:22 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I drilled my torment to prep for this and when I went to the lane to test for flare, it seemed there was flare all on the back of my ball. Anyone get this?
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:51 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Rocking Daddy View Post
Didn't Bill Tucker out of Sunnybrook Lanes in Sterling Hts brag about the "Wheel Drill Layout" back in the 80's?
Yes! The "wheel" was more of a balancing act though. Tucker was an advocate of no weight hole or restricting the size of the hole to no more the 11/16. His stuff rolled pretty smooth, was it different than anything we already knew? I think he would say "you betcha". Bill is extremely knowledgeable, but in reality, the weight shifts in his system were minimal. Cutting edge?

Today, we're creating tremendous imbalances. The Hole takes it to another level. There are a couple of things to consider though. If the ball was originally drilled with an attempt to create maximum power at the pins, the bowler would have seen the difference to begin with. The Hole gives us some cushion in regards to unexpected situations. Sometimes, after the ball is drilled we can be taken by surprise in terms of how much weight is removed. In one particular instance, a ball was drilled with starting weight of over 3oz top. After drilling it had 1/2 bottom. That's quite an unexpected weight shift, especially if the person receiving the ball has very slow ball speed. To test our theory, we had two different people roll the ball, it hit hard for the bowler, hit like a puff ball for the other. So, it can be said, not everything holds true 100% of the time.

Someone is going to say, weights have no bearing. All I know is, we use scales, not x-ray machines. 98% of the time a person brings in a ball that doesn't hit, when we put it on the scale, it will have bottom weight. It doesn't matter what the core design is either. Coincidence?

A hole in the bottom of a ball is either by design or a last ditch effort to make an otherwise useless ball hit hard. In looking at the Hole, I believe it's by design. We could take just about any weak hitting ball, in other words, drill it weak, put a hole in the bottom, and create dynamic attributes which will make the ball more continuous in the pocket. The Hole could save a manufacture from having a lot of rejects too.

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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:13 PM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomaHawk View Post
Someone is going to say, weights have no bearing. All I know is, we use scales, not x-ray machines. 98% of the time a person brings in a ball that doesn't hit, when we put it on the scale, it will have bottom weight. It doesn't matter what the core design is either. Coincidence? --
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:14 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I had my pro shop drill me a used Seismic Desperado today. After hearing so many good things about it being a strong urethane, and how great it was, I decided to get it.($20 what the hell right?) I had it laid out 40x3 3/8x25. Figuring its gonna be stronger then the natural I ha before. Now, the lanes I bowled on is a heavier volume longer ths. I had to go up 5 to get it to the hole. It seemed it hit the lane, started hooking, and stopped. Only drive I got was bc my high speed and rev rate.
I was wondering if trying a MOtion hole on a urethane would be a good , or pointless idea?
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:24 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I guess I should also add when my driller weighed it on the scale, and it had even amount of top and bottm weight. So it made it pretty neutral?
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:47 AM
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Re: Mo's motion hole.. Serious?

I've lost the link on how to drill a MOtion Hole. Can some one post it???
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